Face to Face with: VLADIMIR GRININ

In May, Vladimir Grinin, a distinguished diplomat pre­sented his credentials of Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation in Poland. Earlier postings included Austria and Finland, and he was the head of the IV European Department.

Boniecka: For a long time Polish-Russian relations have been in a state of crisis, but now both sides seem to be interested in improving them. What is the reason for that?

Grinin: Indeed, the relations between our countries have not been very good lately. But I have the impression that both sides understand such situation is not acceptable and should not exist between two neighbors. So, this understanding means a lot. Now, both sides have to work hard to come up with concrete actions that will improve our mutual relations. In this context the visit to Warsaw of Sergey Lavrov, foreign affairs minister of the Russian Federation, was very significant. Both Poland and Russia defined the for­mula of what steps should be taken in order to improve our relations. The main task now is to fill with substance; Russian-Polish relations focusing on cul­tural and inter-regional exchanges, and activation of human contacts. Particularly, we plan to conduct a festival of Russian culture in Poland, and a large-scale presentation of the Kaliningrad Region. We also intend to organize a Forum of Russian and Polish society.

  Boniecka: What is the main problem that is cooling our relations—history, geopolitical interests, or the harsh words sometimes used by politicians on both sides?

  Grinin: I would say that to some extent all the problems you mentioned do con­tribute to it. But I think that the biggest negative impact comes from a lack of confidence.

  Boniecka: For a long time now we have been expecting a meeting between presidents Putin and Kaczynski. When can such a meeting take place?

  Grynin: When Minister Lavrow visited Warsaw it was agreed that a meeting between our presidents should not be considered a goal in itself, but to be an effect of natural development of our mutual relations. It must crown a certain result of such development. So, all the steps that I have mentioned earlier, as well as some other activities, should help create the necessary circumstances and atmosphere for such a meeting to take place. The time and place the summit would be held could easily be negotiated in friendly surroundings.

Boniecka: There were ideas in Poland that such a meeting should take place on neutral ground. What do you think of that?

Grinin: Different scenarios are under consideration, but nothing concrete has been agreed upon yet.

Boniecka: While there is still a lot of room for improvement in political rela­tions between Poland and Russia, our economic cooperation has been going on quite well—Polish investments in Russia as well as exports are growing. How would you explain that?

Grinin: To my mind, in our countries exists a high interest in mutual exploring of both markets. This interest is stimulat­ed by the high pace of economic devel­opment in both countries, quite good knowledge of local conditions, and partly by cultural and mental proximity. We are happy to have Polish products and investments in Russia. But at the same time we would like to correct the one­sided structure of our exports to Poland, in which unfortunately, raw materials and energy sources prevail. We also count on a more favorable attitude toward Russian investment in Poland.

Boniecka: But the ban on imports of food products from Poland to Russia has been a significant impediment in trade. How do you think this problem will be resolved?

Grinin: The question of cancelling the restrictions on Polish agricultural prod­ucts [imported] to Russia will be solved as soon as we manage to create legal and organizational conditions to prevent in future mass falsifications and serious vio­lations when conducting such deliveries. Our proposals on that matter were pre­sented to the Polish side long time ago, and as far as we know the Polish side is taking proper steps. Polish and Russian experts work side by side on that issue and I am sure that all individuals involved in the works do understand that it is an entiijely technical problem to be solved.

Boniecka: Can you speed up the process to any degree?

  Grinin: Wetry to speed up the work of our experts. I have had meetings with Polish agriculture minister and chief vet­erinary surgeon. Our goal is to resume trading as soon as possible. Although, as I said, it is a technical matted, it has had a negative impact on our bilateral rela­tions.

Boniecka: Talking about projects that have had some negative impact on political relations between our coun­tries, I can think of the Russian and German project to build the Northern Pipeline that will transport gas from Russia directly to Germany along the bed of the Baltic Sea.

Grinin: No one in Russia thinks like that and nobody ever thought of creating arti­ficial obstacles in building good relations between our countries.

Boniecka: But Poland views the proj­ect as having a negative economic and political impact on our relations and Poland's energy security.

Grinin: I would like to point out that in [the case of] Northern Pipeline we are mainly concerned with ensuring our own energy security interests. Our goal is to minimize the risks of gas transit by diver­sifying the means of transportation itself. And those risks are high when you look at the level of the existing pipeline network density. Look at what happened when the "Friendship" pipeline workers went on strike. But as far as Polish energy secu­rity is concerned we think that the Northern Pipeline does not threaten Poland's energy security at all. Quite to the contrary, it can be strengthened.

Boniecka: By what means?

Grinin: Poland can join in the project by cooperating with foreign companies that are part of that project.

Boniecka: You mean German compa­nies?

Grinin: Yes. But what is necessary to remember is that Russia respects all con­tracts and business obligations of gas provisions to Poland. We will continue to deliver gas for the Polish domestic market and its transit through pipelines existing here without reducing a single cubic meter in its quantities.

Boniecka: But I wonder why the nego­tiations to build second line along the Yamal pipe failed to finalize?

  Grinin: Frankly speaking, I do not know the details of those talks. As far as I can tell, the plans to construct the second line of the Yamal Pipeline were conditioned by the possibility of enlarging purchases of Russian gas by Poland. However, some time ago Poland said there was no demand for additional gas, at least from Russia...

Boniecka: Some experts say, Russia uses its energy resources as an impor­tant tool in policy-making. How would you react to that?

Grinin: I think that Poland cannot make that complaint. During our 40-year-long co-operation in deliveries of natural gas to Poland there was not a single situation when we used our energy resources as a political weapon. It is worth remember­ing, and I don't know whether it is good or not but it is a fact, that natural oil, gas, and raw materials are the fundamentals of our prosperity. And it would be sheer madness to risk our prosperity in a long-term perspective for the sake of short-term political benefits. So we have enough good reasons not to do it.

Boniecka: What would you say about Poland's efforts to diversify its energy sources?

Grinin: I don't think that it would be proper from my side to comment on the energy policy of your country. One thing, however, that I would like to point out is that the Polish policy has similar features with Russian policy—both put stress on diversification. And this is in line with the world trends. So we only keep our fingers crossed for Poland that it accomplishes those plans successfully. The more safety and confidence diis or that country has, the better for its neighbors and its region­al stability. In otiier respects, I don't see any obstacles in developing a better co­operation between Russia and Poland in the energy sector in the spirit of partner­ship including active dialogue on issues of growing interdependence in the energy field, implementing high technologies and new power sources.

Boniecka: Last summer we saw a new problem in mutual relations. This time it stemmed from the lack of regulations governing navigation rights on the Vistula bay. Whereas Poland opted for a free-to-all navigation zone there, which would be profitable not only for Poland but also for the Kaliningrad Region, Russia had reservations. What is the problem there?

Grinin: The problem is the outdated agreement that governs navigation on the Vistula/Kaliningrad Bay. It was signed in 1961 and obviously does not corre­spond with the present-day reality. So, in response to Polish proposals, Russia pro­duced its own draft of a new agreement. Now it is too early to comment on it as the draft is now being analyzed and negotiated by experts. But the will to change the situation for common good exists on both sides, which is most important for success.

Boniecka: Russia and the European Union are negotiating a new treaty on partnership and cooperation. How do you see the role of Poland in this process?

Grinin: First of all we have to remember that Russia and the European Union are working towards building a strategic partnership. The new treaty is to. serve as its legal base. We are talking about a very important process for both sides and for the entire Europe. So we envisage four common areas of co-operation, which should pull Russia and the EU closer as much as possible-from economy and security to foreign policy and the devel­opment of new technologies. Joining the EU, Poland as well as the rest of the new member states took the obligation of supporting that process, so we hope that they wiH provide constructive and ade­quate input and collective interest of the union will take over the narrow national approaches.

Boniecka: You are saying that Poland will provide "constructive input" into building relations between the EU and Russia. Do you imply that so far Poland's role in shaping up the EU policy toward Russia was not necessarily constructive?

Grinin: I cannot comment on it. We have  no access to the "inner kitchen" of the EU.
But as I said, what should be of great importance is that the EU member states work toward strengthening the strategic partnership between the Union and Russia. I would like to mark that we don't have anything against the Union on duct­ing a dialogue with us "with one voice" as long as the voice is not false. It's even more convenient for us. In fact, the unified poli­cy of the EU to the third countries and to Russia in particular, which is formed in a complex way, as we understand is to some extent the result of bilateral ties between members of the EU with Russia. It is obvi­ous that with some of those countries we have better developed relations, and less with others. So, their useful substance, which could enrich common "money­ box" is different. But to my mind, our rela­tions with Poland have a very significant potential to develop in certain areas, such as co-operation in the Kaliningrad Region, which can promote co-operation between Russia and the EU in general.